Mohamed Rouichi: Interview with Jilali Elkoudia

In his book Moroccan Folktales, Jilali El Koudia, a Professor of English and Comparative literature at Dhar Elmehraz, Faculty of Letters and Human Sciences, transformed his mother’s stories into written texts and he, also, mourns the loss of Moroccan folk narratives, an old tradition teetering on the brink of extinction, as he fastidiously puts it in the book’s preface, “Because it is an oral tradition and depends on memory, it is in danger of perishing. Indeed, in the face of modern mass media, in particular audiovisual, these tales have been falling into neglect and oblivion.”
The work fascinatingly presents a collection of a thorough astonishing thirty-one tales. By transforming his mother’s stories as well as those of other women into written texts, the readers dive deep into the heart of ancient Morocco. The tales of hikayat en-niswan (women’s tales) seem to take a dominant portion in the collection given that El Koudia recorded the tales from his mother and other women. Other tales belong to genres such as animal stories, romantic and realistic novellas, local legends and formulaic tales. As noted in his introduction, El Koudia does not merely transcribe the tales he heard, but amends, reconstructs, and retells them, eliminating wordiness and repetition because, let us remember, these stories have been narrated by raconteurs who rely on their, most often, tenuous memories.

Interview with Jilali El Koudia

Mohamed Rouichi: What were you exactly seeking when you decided to record oral tales from your mother and other women?

Jilali El Koudia: Realizing that such tales were of great value culturally and artistically, not only to Morocco but also to the whole world, I decided to record them so as not to perish and to pass them over to other generations. Since old people who tell them orally are not immortal and the human memory/mind wears out with age, it is necessary to write the tales down in order to save them from the ravages of time. This is a human heritage, and it must be protected by all means.

MR: What does the Moroccan oral tale mean to you?

JK: It means a powerful masterpiece of creativity and imagination. The people who invented these tales, our ancestors, were geniuses, wise and great entertainers. To me, a Moroccan tale is a source of inspiration.

MR: Is there anything you find particular about the Moroccan folktale?

JK: Moroccan folktales share many themes and motifs with other tales from the world. They express human concerns and ideals that are universal; and for this reason we consider them a human heritage as I’ve already said. What is particular about them, however, is the reflection of some local customs, traditions, and geography.

MR: Given the fact that most Moroccans grew up hearing stories from grandmothers and grandfathers, in what way do think the Moroccan folktale embodies the Moroccan life?

JK: Generally speaking, folktales are considered as containers of a nation’s culture. Moroccan folktales are not an exception; they do reflect Moroccan life and culture with its traditions, customs, worldview, philosophy, wit and wisdom….

MR: would you agree that Morocco has preserved its oral culture, and if yes, what in your opinion are the reasons for this?

JK: There have been attempts at preserving our oral culture, but not enough. Morocco is rich and varied enough in its oral culture and our intellectuals are called upon to make more efforts at the exploration of such treasure and its recording before it vanishes.

MR: Oral tales have been handed down to us by word of mouth for centuries, by people who merely rely on memory, how was your work schedule while working with such people?

JK: If you mean my method of work in collecting the tales from old people, here it is: I ask them to tell the stories. I carefully listen to them, without using a tape recorder or a smartphone. This was long ago, during the 80s and 90s of the last century. I only took a few notes in a notebook; and as soon as they leave, I start writing down the tales in Moroccan Arabic. Then a long process ensues, not only translating them into English
but particularly arranging them in a unified whole. This involves a great effort of recreation, filling in gaps, putting in order the bits and pieces of the plot….In fact, the work I did was not simply a translation but also a re-telling and recreation of the tales.

MR: Can you comment on the growing interest in folktales these days?

JK: As long as human beings are imaginative, they will be interested in folktales because, besides being carriers of culture and identity, they are, as I’ve already mentioned, a great source of inspiration.

MR: How do you see yourself as a Moroccan playing a part in the preservation of this oral
tradition in English?

JK: I think I have done only what I could. It’s one drop in an ocean really, and I hope other people will carry on the mission as our oral tradition is a fertile and inexhaustible field.

MR: In what way is the oral tale a translatable narrative? What is missed in the translation?

JK: To start with the second part of the question: of course, so much is missed in translation, a fact that is inherent in any translation of all sorts. I should say the voice, the tone, and the manner of saying something (including gestures and facial expressions) – above all the emotion involved – of the teller are missing in the translated version. Is the tale a translatable narrative? I believe so, or else you wouldn’t have read the tales
in question and appreciated them as I have the impression you did. The translatability of a narrative text rests not only upon the linguistic competence, but particularly upon the love of and conviction of the translator in his/her task.

MR: One can but be satisfied with your work, documenting over thirty-one tales. What do you think the next step should be to save Moroccan folktales?

JK: The next step is to encourage scholars to carry out more projects in this field; and this encouragement can only come from Institutions and Ministries of Culture and Education.

MR: If I asked you to choose one tale that appeals to you the most, what would it be? Why this choice?

JK: An embarrassing question, isn’t it? I like them all, like the fingers of my hand, as they say. But if you insist, let’s say, and without thinking, the first tale “Seven Brothers and a Sister.” Why this choice? No real reason except that it happens to be the first text in the collection.

Interview and translation provided by Mohamed Rouichi, a Ph.D. researcher in New Trends in Literary Linguistic and Cultural Studies at the University Abdelmalek Essaadi, Tetouan, Morocco.